How Jon Gries Made His Diabolical Return to ‘The White Lotus’
His surprise return as Greg — or “Gary” — started season 3 off with a big twist in a show known for being twisted. What happens next even he needed to wrap his head around.
YOU DON’T CHECK out of a White Lotus without some stories to tell. And nobody has had their White Lotus punch card punched as many times as Jon Gries, whose surprise return to HBO’s prestige social satire upended already rampant speculation about its third season. Gries started the first season in Hawaii as Greg, a soft-spoken and patient suitor for Tanya (Jennifer Coolidge), a high-roller loudly grieving the loss of her mother. By the end of the second season in Sicily, Greg was the architect of Tanya’s untimely demise. By season 3 in Thailand, Greg is “Gary.” Is he living it up with money from Tanya’s insurance policy? Is he hiding out from Italian authorities? Is he looking for a new mark or just looking for a good time with his new Quebecois squeeze?
Gries can’t spill those secrets just yet, but he’s eager to unburden himself of all the stories he’s had to hold close to the vest until now. Like the time Blackpink’s Lisa (who he calls by her legal name, Lalisa) saved him from blowing the whole secret operation. Or the time creator Mike White changed everything Gries thought he knew about Greg with just one word. And then the time he did it again. Or the many, many lies Gries had to tell to keep his casting a secret — and the apology tour that’s followed. (First stop, Men’s Health.)
Zooming into our conversation with Pablo, his vibrant green eclectus parrot, palling around on his shoulder, Gries talks about the close calls that almost blew his cover in Thailand, the mental gymnastics he went through to figure out just what kind of guy Greg really is, and how he and Natasha Rothwell are getting ready to go head to head.
MEN’S HEALTH: You appearance in the season premiere was a total shock. How the hell did you keep it secret?
JON GRIES: You know, that’s why I’m so happy to finally be able to do interviews. It feels good to finally be able to talk about it — and it’s also a way of apologizing to a lot of people I’ve lied to. I’ve lied to so many friends. Literally, one of my dear friends said to me the other day, “Dude, I just saw you on White Lotus! You never told me!” I said, “No, I know I didn’t. I’m sorry!” He said, “But it’s me!” And I just said, “But I had to kept my mouth shut!”
MH: What was the excuse you gave people when you had to leave town for a few months?
JG: I told them I went to the Philippines to shoot a remake of a movie called The Sand Pebbles, which was a real movie with Steve McQueen from the ’60s. I said “they” were making a miniseries of it. And people would ask, “Well, who’s they? What company?” And I’d say, “Oh, it’s European. It’s…EuropaCorp!”
MH: That is a very specific lie.
JG: It was a blatant lie. It wasn’t even a white lie. It was a bald-faced lie.
MH: You’re a better liar than Greg.
JG: I mean, it kills me to do it! But, you know, I was compelled.
MH: I’m surprised nobody spotted you in Thailand.
JG: Somebody did! There was one guy who saw me. He stopped me at a restaurant and was like, “White Lotus! I heard you guys are here shooting. So you’re back?” And I said, “No, no. I’m just visiting. If you had some friends who were working in Thailand and they told you to come visit, wouldn’t you jump on the opportunity and visit them?” And he bought the story, luckily.
Another night, I was out with some of the cast. We went to go get some food. Usually I would stay away, but one night, I went to dinner with Lalisa and Christian Friedel and Jason Isaacs and his wife Emma. We were walking down the street, and suddenly Lalisa just ran away from me. And she ran because she realized people were going to look at her, then look at me, and then connect the dots. I said, “Where’s she going?” And the rest of them were like, “She’s avoiding being connected to you!”
MH: How did you have to recalibrate you performance with each season as you learned more about Greg? He’s like an onion — the more layers you peel back, the more he stinks.
JG: That’s a really good way of looking at it. Each time it’s been a reset. Certainly, going from season 1 to season 2 was quite a large reset. When Mike texted me between seasons, he said, “Hey, I’m writing you in for season 2. Are you up for it?” I said, “Are you kidding? Anytime, anywhere.” Then he said, “By the way, Greg is diabolical.” That was all he gave me! Now, the best con men are incredibly charming. Not to say that I was incredibly charming, but Greg was pretty charming in the face of Tanya’s drama. He was willing to take whatever she was throwing at him. So then to see how season 2 played out, it worked to add “diabolical” to Greg’s character.
But then before season 3 — I don’t know, I tried to equivocate my way out of the idea that Greg really was part of the plot to kill Tanya. I guess I just hadn’t really fully embraced it. I write a very involved history for my characters — and I try and write their future as well. I’d always written character histories, but then I read that Jeff Bridges writes the postscript to the story too, and I thought that was really interesting. Why not continue the story, see where it goes, just for yourself? But as I was writing it, I kept getting hung up. Maybe, maybe, he didn’t want her to be killed. Maybe he wanted her to be caught having sex with some Italian guy and he was going to extort her. Or is he truly just a psychopath?
So then season 3 was starting production, and I was in Thailand. I saw Mike White walking to set early one the morning, like 6:30 or 7:00 in the morning, and I ran over and caught up with him. I said, “I know you’re going to work, but I just have a couple of questions. So, Greg. Is he really… fully… totally…? I mean, am I overthinking this? Is he a psychopath?” And Mike just said, “Psychopath.” And just walked away! And then of course I went back and watched season 2 again, and said to myself, “God, what a pretzel I twisted myself into thinking he wasn’t a psychopath. Of course he is!”
MH: In season 2, so much about Greg was revealed via Quentin. So, all of these revelations about your character played out without you being there to inhabit them as an actor. How do you catch up with Greg — physically and emotionally — so that you’re living in the version of this guy that we see in season 3?
JG: That’s a really good question. I think it’s always lovely when other characters talk about your character — because it adds to the game. How much of it was real? How much of it was Quentin’s memory of Greg from long ago and far away? There was something there! And it gave me a lot. It gave me a lot to think about with Greg, which I think you’ll see continue in this season.
MH: Do you think of him as a user, based on how he treated Tanya and may have treated Quentin all those years back?
JG: Yes. In fact, that that’s exactly what helped me as an actor; what was most informative to me was Quentin’s heartbreak with Greg. This guy just worked his way through Quentin, and he didn’t really care. He doesn’t have any discernment. He just gets what he can get from who he needs to get it from.
MH: When we first met him in season 1, we saw this nice, charming, patient guy with an age-appropriate taste in women. Now we see this surly, snappy guy with Chloe, a woman almost half his age. What do you think it says about him?
JG: I think “user” is the appropriate word. He’s a user. I don’t think he’s ever been in love. I don’t think he knows what love is. And I don’t think he cares. Quite honestly, I think he feels absolutely free from that ridiculous emotion, and that’s a comfort to him. To him, it’s all folly. He’s not mindful of his relationships. To him, a relationship is just: We’re on this path, in this lane together. You can do whatever you want within this lane, but don’t go outside of it, outside my jurisdiction. Whatever you do, you include me. That’s where I think his head is at.
MH: Chloe says that the locals use the term LBH — “Losers Back Home” — to describe guys like Greg. Does he ever think of himself as a loser?
JG: Never, never. In fact, he would probably be the first to say that [the other characters] are all losers in the way that they’re all sitting around aging and toxifying themselves with all their concerns about this, concerns about that. This is a guy who can just as easily live with nothing or live with lots. At this particular juncture, he’s living with lots and he’s going to live it up.
MH: Materially, he’s living with lots. But it does seem like his inner life is empty.
JG: Yes, and I do think that’s a comfort zone for him. I don’t think he even has the bandwidth for more than that. He doesn’t care. For him, sharing his feelings is like: “I want to work out.” “I’m hungry, I want to eat.” “I want to have sex.” “I want to have a party.” It just doesn’t really manifest as like: “How are you doing?” “I want to check in with you.” “Are you good?” And if he were to do something like that, it would be purely performative, like he’s just acting out a part, you know?
MH: The show seems to be setting up a cat and mouse game between Belinda and “Gary.” Do you think the risk of Belinda realizing who he is gives him anything approaching anxiety? Or is he similarly ice cold in those matters?
JG: He just doesn’t invest in those kinds of emotions. But he does have a rule — or rather, I gave him a rule, and I don’t know where it came. His one rule is that he’ll give you one chance. He’ll give you a chance, he will set the rules, and if you don’t take it, then he always has a plan B. And plan B could be as simple as: “I packed your bags, the car’s coming, and you have to go now.” I could see him doing that to someone like Chloe. Or it could be what happened to Tanya. And whatever his intentions might be with [Belinda] or anyone else, he really just wants people to understand that there’s no second chance. And I feel like he doesn’t ever want to go to plan B simply because it’s inconvenient.
MH: I loved the cuts back and forth between Belinda and “Gary.” There’s a growing franticness in her eyes and a hardness in his. Did you and Natasha Rothwell discuss how you’d approach their reunion beforehand?
JG: No, we just kind of went with it. I don’t think it’s something we would ever really discuss beforehand. The more territory left undiscovered between us, the better it is for us as we try to feel each other out when we’re actually in the scenes.
MH: But I imagine there’s a familiarity with each other’s acting process left over from the first season?
JG: Oh, absolutely. There’s a scene later in the season where [“Gary” and Belinda] stop and talk to each other, and I was doing it a certain way. Sometimes I get an idea caught up in my mind, and I have to play it out. So I thought it might be interesting to play it a certain way. And turned out it wasn’t. So I kind of recalibrated what I did, dialed it off a little bit, and she was like, “Yes, that’s good.” And then she talked to me about it, and suggested I tweak it in a certain way. So I did it that way, and she said, “Yes! That makes me uncomfortable.”
MH: So far, you’ve gone to Hawaii, Sicily, and Thailand with this show. It’s funny that Mike White keeps checking in with you on whether you’d possibly ever want to come back — as if it isn’t a sweet gig.
JG: That’s just how gracious he is. He’s never going to assume that of course any of us will want to come back. There’s no pretense with him, no fronting. He is exactly who he is. And that’s such a breath of fresh air. You get the onion already peeled every time.